JEREMY HARDY IS A STAND-UP COMIC, RADIO PANELIST AND RED PEPPER WRITER WITH STRONG CONVICTIONS. NEVER AFRAID TO REVEAL HIS DEEP-SET LEFT-WING TENDENCIES, AS A REGULAR ON BBC RADIO FOUR’S I’M SORRY I HAVEN’T A CLUE, THE NEWS QUIZ AND JUST A MINUTE HE HAS BEEN A CHAMPION OF SOCIALIST VALUES.
The tenth series of Hardy’s own radio show – JEREMY HARDY SPEAKS TO THE NATION, which comprises a series of ‘lectures’ – was broadcast late last year. His 2003 documentary film JEREMY HARDY V THE ISRAELI ARMY followed the International Solidarity Movement and its activities in Palestine. In these current times of hope (Jeremy Corbyn) and despair (the refugee crisis) it has perhaps never been more appropriate for him to tour. Hardy – who has performed stand-up since 1984 – sets out next week on a run of UK dates which stretches into December. In this forthright new interview with The Mouth Magazine we settle in to talk about the current state of affairs…

JUST LOOKING AT THE LIST OF LIVE DATES YOU HAVE COMING UP IN THE AUTUMN… THERE ARE A LOT OF SHOWS. YOU’VE BEEN PERFORMING STAND-UP FOR OVER THIRTY YEARS NOW…
Thirty-two years, I think. Or is it thirty-one?

IS IT DIFFICULT TO KEEP THINGS FRESH? YOU HAVE AN ACTIVE MIND, A SOCIAL CONSCIENCE, YOU WRITE REGULARLY FOR RED PEPPER… THERE IS ALWAYS PLENTY TO SAY?
Yeah, there’s always stuff happening. I was talking about this with Jo Brand last night, actually. Every couple of years you think “Oh, God, I can’t possibly have anything left to say” – but then something happens or you just have to force yourself. I think when you’re younger you have more energy and stuff is just pouring into your head all of the time. As you get older you might have to sit down with a notepad or at a laptop and make yourself write stuff – but it comes in the end.

ABOUT BEING A LITTLE OLDER… I’VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE NATURAL SOFTENING OF SOCIALIST PRINCIPLES THAT SEEMS TO COME WITH AGE – WHEN LIFE HAS SORT OF WEATHERED STUFF AWAY… YOU TRAVEL AROUND THE COUNTRY PERFORMING AND YOU’RE NOT ONE OF THESE PEOPLE WHO HIDES AWAY FROM HIS AUDIENCE… SO I WONDERED WHETHER YOU’VE FOUND THAT PEOPLE ARE POLITICALLY ENGAGED?
I think these things come and go. You go through periods of being a bit despondent or cynical and then you wake up again, you know? I’d thought “We’re never going to get anywhere” and that I’d do the odd benefit or sign the odd petition but there’d be no real impact… What’s quite interesting at the moment – with the whole Jeremy Corbyn phenomenon – is that everybody seems to have come back to life. Suddenly there’s this huge mood around… Not just with people my age, either. I did an event for Jeremy Corbyn the other week and he’s absolutely surrounded by twenty year old members of the Labour party who are really fired up and really passionate…

… THAT’S INCREDIBLY ENCOURAGING, ISN’T IT?
Yeah. I’m probably less certain of my opinions these days in as much as… erm… I’m less certain of everything about myself, ha ha… The only thing wrong with my opinions is that they’re mine – which makes me doubt their wisdom! If I’ve got an idea it’s perhaps not a good one, but if there’s an idea I’ve borrowed off somebody wiser that’s okay…

LAST NIGHT I READ BACK THROUGH YOUR BOOK, JEREMY HARDY SPEAKS TO THE NATION…
Did you? Blimey, you were lucky to find a copy of that…

… I BOUGHT IT AT THE TIME…
Bless you. I’ll give you the money back.

I WAS DRAWN TO A PARTICULAR ONE OF THE LECTURES IN IT… HOW TO KNOW YOUR PLACE…
About the class system in this country, yeah.

MY FEELING IS THAT THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT ARE DOING EVERYTHING WITHIN THEIR POWER TO REINFORCE THE COUNTRY’S CLASS STRUCTURE… AND THERE’S THIS BEAUTIFUL LINE ABOUT THE LEFT IN THAT LECTURE: “MOST OF US HAVE A HARD ENOUGH TIME ORGANISING A PUB QUIZ TEAM LET ALONE AN INSURRECTION”…
Ha ha, yeah. The left has been famously chaotic in that regard. Disorganised. While we’ve been faffing about trying to work out who’s got the placards, the Tories have been busy…

… STEAMING IN WITH THE WATER CANNONS…
Yeah – just getting on with business. I’ve now come to the view that whoever’s in power, not much alters. Things do change in that there are things that can be done to make the lives of people much better but, really, the power still stays in the same hands, doesn’t it? Basically I don’t think the Tories mind being out of government that much because they’re still running the country – just in a different guise. With their other hats on.

WHEN THAT BOOK WAS PUBLISHED IN 1994 JOHN MAJOR WAS PRIME MINISTER, WHICH SEEMS A LIFETIME AGO. I’M NO JOHN MAJOR APOLOGIST BUT BEARING IN MIND WHAT WAS EITHER SIDE OF HIM – THATCHER AND BLAIR – HE SEEMS ALMOST INOFFENSIVE, DOESN’T HE?
Cor blimey. Yeah… John Major came from quite a humble background and at least he seemed to believe in some things – whereas I’m not sure that this current lot do at all. They’re like a bunch of speculators. A bunch of spivs. Also, they’re just so much more entitled, aren’t they? Although the Tory party has always been a very aristocratic party they used to have a lot of self-made people in there, too. Now it just seems like an episode of DOWNTON ABBEY or something. I’m sure Cameron thinks he’s Prime Minister because he thinks that is what he was born to do – I don’t know that he’s actually got any great opinion about anything much at all.

HE’S JUST THE GOOD-LOOKING FRONTMAN OF THE BAND…
Yeah, he is. But he’s not even that good looking, to be honest. He’s got a really weird head. In terms of looks your head is actually quite important, I think.

WE LIVED THROUGH MARGARET THATCHER’S… ERM… REICH – IS THAT THE RIGHT WORD?
Ha ha…

AT THAT TIME IT SEEMED THAT THINGS WERE AS BAD AS THEY COULD GET – BUT SOMEHOW THE CURRENT CROP OF POLITICIANS MAKE HER LOOK ALMOST AMATEURISH…
Yeah, they do. It’s actually worse now because at least Thatcher was quite sort of… erm… measured, in some regards. She knew that the NHS was sacred to the British people. She recognised that there was still a role for public ownership. She knew that you don’t really mess around with the Royal Mail and things like that… It’s complete vandalism, now. They’ve got no boundaries at all in what they’re doing. They’re just looting. There’s an absolute frenzy of pillage going on.

THEY’VE ALSO NOW MASTERED PRESENTATION, SPIN, PR… IT’S GLOSSY. IT’S A PRETTY NASTY CON TRICK, ISN’T IT?
Oh yeah. Thatcher couldn’t tell how weird she looked and she had no presentational skills at all, really. She just weirdly captured people’s imaginations, somehow or other. This lot come on the radio and they talk about how much they like punk rock. They go to festivals. Cameron goes on Easy Jet for his holidays, just so everyone can see him getting on an everyman Easy Jet flight…

… STRAIGHT THERE AND BACK, THOUGH, JUST TO GET THE PHOTO…
I think it’s possible that all of the other passengers were actors, yeah… Or Tory party officials who were told to get on the same plane… It’s all much more skilled presentationally. We’ve got Cameron running round without a tie on… Thatcher just lived in her own world, I think. She lived in this weird bubble. Obviously we absolutely hated Margaret Thatcher but now, particularly when you’re my age and the government are all younger than you, there’s something particularly irksome about it.

MARGARET THATCHER’S GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT WAS TONY BLAIR…
That’s what she said, yeah…

BECAUSE OF THE OPTIMISM THAT SURROUNDED TONY BLAIR’S ELECTION IN 1997, I’M ALWAYS INTERESTED TO ASK THIS. DO YOU THINK HE WAS CORRUPTED WHEN HE GOT INTO POWER, OR DO YOU THINK THE PUBLIC WERE HOODWINKED BY HIM BEFORE THAT?
He seemed young and fresh, but I think there was just such a desperation to get the Tories out of power. My friend Linda Smith said about Blair: “I had no expectations of him at all – and even I’m disappointed”… Even though I was very glad to see the back of the Tories I was very sceptical and didn’t like him at all, to be honest. I knew he was on the right, but I didn’t predict quite how bonkers he was, you know?

IRAQ…
Yeah. I had no idea he’d plunge the Middle East into absolute chaos out of some vainglorious attempt at legacy. They did stuff that there was no pressure for at all. The stuff that they started doing in the NHS and in education – they started the fragmentation, they started bringing in private elements that didn’t need to be brought in. It was terrible, the damage done. And now, all these people who are slamming Corbyn, I just think they’ve got no credibility whatsoever. New Labour – the egotism and massive vanity of that project… They can’t bear the idea that someone’s challenged it. I just hope all of those people’ll bugger off. Charles Clarke, Jack Straw and David Blunkett. All those people… No-one really wants to know what Peter Mandelson has to say about anything anymore. Or Blair. People just want to see Tony Blair up in front of the criminal court.

JEREMY CORBYN BEHAVES WITH AN IMPRESSIVE DIGNITY.
Yeah. I just watched the PANORAMA hatchet job on him, but he just seems to withstand all that stuff… The voices against him are so shrill and so hysterical and so unbalanced that none of it really washes with him. I think, actually, even a lot of Conservatives in this country are thinking “This is outrageous, the attacks on this man”. Whatever criticisms anyone might level at him, Corbyn is clearly a man of integrity and a man of honesty. He sticks to his core principles and does what he can to put them into action. People are thinking “What is this hysteria, this desperation to stop him? What is it that these people are actually afraid of?”

THERE’S THIS IDIOT IDEA THAT THE COUNTRY MIGHT FALL APART ENTIRELY IF IT SHIFTS EVEN ONE IOTA TO THE LEFT… IF CORBYN DOES BECOME LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY, AND THEN DOES BECOME THE NEXT PRIME MINISTER, DO YOU THINK HE HAS WHAT IT TAKES?
The thing is, Corbyn is very inclusive and he will work with other people. He’s going to have to work with Labour MPs ‘as they are’ – and they’re going to have to work out whether they’re prepared to cooperate and listen to him or whether they’re just going to get hysterical and oppose him. The Labour party is going to have to see if it can adjust, really. He’s not unpopular. He’s got masses of support in the branches and the unions. He’s not disliked in Parliament and not disliked by the public. His biggest problem is going to be his own MPs attacking him. He’s got good people around him but the main problem he’s going to face is attacks from his own party. All those rather slick MPs.

CORBYN COULD BE VERY GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY BECAUSE NOT ONLY WILL LABOUR HAVE TO ADJUST TO HIM IF HE WINS THE LEADERSHIP, BUT I THINK EVERYONE ELSE WILL ALSO HAVE TO FIND ‘A NEW WAY’… A BETTER WAY.
They will. Jeremy Corbyn’s not going to be interested in the ‘knockabout’ nonsense at Prime Minister’s Questions, he’s not going to be interested in the name-calling… Cameron is going to have to find a different way of being and a different way of behaving in the House Of Commons. Debate will be different. It’s going to be much more civilised, I think… Certainly from Jeremy’s point of view it will. As for actually becoming Prime Minister? You can do it any way you want to, can’t you? It’s up to you to set the tone.

I WONDER WHETHER HE WILL ACTUALLY BECOME PRIME MINISTER…
God, I wouldn’t want to be Prime Minister, would you? I don’t think Corbyn particularly wants to be the Prime Minister, either. I don’t think he was a schoolboy who assumed that one day he’d be the Prime Minister, was he? Obviously George Osborne was… But Corbyn’s now in a position where he might have to be and he’s probably thinking “If I’ve got to be the Prime Minister then I’ve got to be the Prime Minister – and I will manage”. He’ll rise to the challenge.

IN AN IDEAL WORLD – IN THAT UTOPIA WHICH WE KNOW CANNOT REALLY EXIST – WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE BEEN THE APPROPRIATE FIRST RESPONSE FOR DAVID CAMERON TO HAVE MADE TO THE REFUGEE CRISIS?
To open the doors to a lot more people. And they shouldn’t have stopped the patrols in the Mediterranean, which they then put back… It’s a nightmare situation. It’s a mess. I wouldn’t want to be in David Cameron’s position, having to make the decision as to what to do…

THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY THE COUNTRY IS FULL ALREADY…
The people in Calais don’t particularly want to come to Britain, they want to settle in France. There’s only three thousand people left – what is that? Three thousand people. You could fit all of them into a provincial theatre, couldn’t you? I travel around this country and there are those people who say “This is a small island”. Well, try getting round it on a fucking Sunday. And it’s not full… In London there are loads of empty flats owned by foreign billionaires who just buy property in London to watch it go up in value. Or people who have a crash-pad in London and a house outside of London. There’s loads of empty places. Everywhere you go there are old factories and warehouses lying derelict which could be turned into housing. There are ground-filled sites where there should be Council housing, there are empty office buildings which could be converted into flats… There’s actually loads of empty space in this country. It is not full.

I WAS LISTENING TO JEREMY VINE’S SHOW ON RADIO 2 YESTERDAY LUNCHTIME, AND HE WAS TAKING CALLS ABOUT THE REFUGEE CRISIS. I ALWAYS FIND IT INTERESTING HOW THINGS THAT SHOULDN’T BECOME GENERALLY ACCEPTED KIND OF ‘DRIFT INTO ACCEPTANCE’ UNDERNEATH OTHER ISSUES… THIS GUY PHONED IN TO SAY “OUR DISABLED HAVE BEEN TOLD THEY NEED TO GO OUT AND GET JOBS… BUT HOW ARE THEY MEANT TO NOW WHEN THERE’S A LOAD OF SYRIANS COMING IN WHO’LL TAKE THEIR JOBS?” – STAGGERING…
Really? Ugh. Well, I think people don’t necessarily think about the scale of what’s going on and what people are facing in Syria, or Somalia or the various other parts of the world that people are coming from. We have this myth, here, about us having this proud reputation for welcoming people – but it doesn’t stand up to very close scrutiny, actually… Yes, we did settle Ugandan Asians and, yes, we did settle Vietnamese boat people. But there weren’t many. It’s exaggerated, this reputation of how much Britain has done for refugees.

THE 1930s…
We were pretty grudging about letting people in during the 1930s. In the 1930s people here were worried about Jewish people coming in. The Daily Mail was a) basically supporting the Nazis and b) campaigning to stop Jews coming in from Europe. The Kindertransport was people having to send their children off, and Jewish kids were only allowed to come in if they had a sponsor, a wealthy guarantor. It wasn’t like there was some massive government program to rescue people or resettle them – that was not what was happening at all. Nobody now, with the benefit of hindsight, would think that was good. Now is the time that we should learn from it. We should be looking back and remembering that our country didn’t do absolutely everything that it could to help those who were the most in need during the 1930s and the 1940s… Future generations will look back at us and say “What the hell was Britain doing only letting a handful of people in from Syria?”… These are people who are trying to escape from ISIS and from Assad’s barrel bombs.

ARE THESE ISSUES THAT YOU WILL BE TALKING ABOUT ON YOUR TOUR?
Well, these are the things that have been happening recently, and that particular issue has become so much bigger – people are talking about it a lot. I’ve talked before about immigration and our identity and the mixed, multiracial, identity of Britain. There are things I’ve been involved in recently as well – I’ve had to go on the media and talk about being refused a vote for the Labour leadership election, despite having registered. So these are the issues that I would talk about anyway… I do think these are interesting times. I think it must be weird for comics who haven’t got anything to say about politics.

IT DOES SEEM SOMEHOW… IGNORANT… NOT TO WHEN THERE’S SO MUCH SHOCKING STUFF GOING ON.
It’s really buzzy at the moment. People are engaged with social media, Twitter, Facebook and so on – and 24-hour news coverage – and they’re much more aware of what’s going on than they were even only a few years ago. So I think now there’s almost an expectation that comedians will talk about things whereas in the past people have sometimes been a bit “Why do you have to talk about that?” sort of thing… Michael Gove once wrote an article in The Times, before he was an MP… He alleged that there was an obscure left wing entryist movement into the BBC, and that people like Linda (Smith) and I had been trained up as comedians by the far left to infiltrate Radio Four. Just this fucking bonkers article. He’s not a man who should be trusted with…

… A SPOON…
Yeah, exactly, ha ha. And definitely not with power… These days I think that people think if you’re a comedian you’ve got a sort of obligation to talk about that stuff.

HOW DO YOU FIND THE COMEDY IN IT, THOUGH?
Well, it’s very difficult sometimes. You really don’t want to belittle something horrible. There’s that fine line between being satirical and making light of things. I do know some comics who won’t do stuff about politics because it upsets them too much – and I do understand that. Some people think joking about something is belittling it, the scale of it, the horror of it. I do understand that. And I do sometimes question myself: “Am I contributing to this or am I trivialising it?” – I’m mindful of that. But everyone’s supposed to be literate and articulate and supposed to have a view on stuff these days, aren’t they? You even expect musicians to have a view on stuff. Even One Direction probably have an opinion, now…

Jeremy Hardy’s autumn / winter tour runs from 18th September to 15th December. A full list of dates and ticket links here
Jeremy’s regular column for RED PEPPER can be found here